Amanda Gorman on DNC Poem, Kamala Harris, and New Book

There’s a man lingering around the corner, singing, and Amanda Gorman is a smidge distracted. Just minutes ago, she stepped off the stage at the Democratic National Convention after performing her poem “This Sacred Scene,” and now she’s tucked herself into the quietest spot she can find in the stadium: the Chicago Bulls’ showers. “I’m so sorry,” the 26-year-old poet says, her long gown rustling through the phone as she and her minder hurry to shush whoever’s out there making noise. There’s a pause, and then, “Oh, my God!” A moment later: “We love you—we love you.” It was John Legend, passing through on his way backstage.

Gorman and Legend were just two of the big names lined up to rouse the crowd at the DNC on Aug. 21—Bill Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, and Oprah also took the stage at the United Center, urging voters to support Vice President Kamala Harris and Minnesota Governor Tim Walz in their campaign. Gorman, who became the nation’s youngest inaugural poet when she performed “The Hill We Climb” at President Joe Biden’s swearing-in in January 2021, originally had a different candidate, and a different tone, in mind as she began to think about a potential recitation at the DNC. It was only about a week ago that she got the official invitation to participate and began writing “This Sacred Scene” for this moment.

The energy has been high at this year’s DNC, and Gorman’s recitation added to the mood. “Invite her at your own peril,” one of ABC’s anchors said as Gorman took the stage. “She certainly stole the show in 2021.” Dressed in a stately, icy blue gown, Gorman delivered a poem reframing the American dream: “Only now, approaching this rare air / Are we aware that perhaps the American dream / Isn’t a dream at all, but instead, a dare.”

After the performance, John Legend dispatched, Gorman spoke to TIME about her own presidential ambitions, who she thinks should recite at a potential Harris-Tim Walz Inauguration, and how she’s thinking about hope during this election season. She also shared details on her next book, exclusive to TIME.

You looked so confident and so poised as you recited tonight. How do you feel you’ve changed in the past three-plus years when it comes to your confidence, your presence, and your ability to hold a room?

I had to do a bit of growth in order to show up at the DNC in the way that I did. At the Inauguration, there’d only been a few hundred people there. They were all behind me. There was no one at the National Mall because of COVID and the insurrection. So it was actually an incredibly intimate way to participate in politics as a poet. When I got the invite for the DNC, I was honored, but I was also very nervous about what it would be like in such a different environment—to be inside, to be in a stadium, to have so many people watching not just digitally but this time in person. I had to go back to my fundamentals and my basics as a poet to make sure that the poem was as good as it could be, to make every line sharp, and to feel really confident and comfortable in expressing that and holding that space.

Read More: ‘Unity With Purpose.’ Amanda Gorman and Michelle Obama Discuss Art, Identity and Optimism

Tell me about your experience right as you stepped onstage—what is your energy like in those moments?

It’s kind of like, let’s do this. I have a very fake-it-till-you-make-it personal energy that I go by, because you step out and the first thing that I felt was like, Oh my God, this room is huge. I saw it during rehearsals, but it had been relatively empty. When I walked out on stage, I was so blown away by the positive response of the audience. I didn’t realize that so many people would know who I was or remember, so I just soaked that in because it felt so heartwarming.

I have to tell you, I just saw a tweet that said, “I can’t wait to vote for Amanda Gorman for President one day.”

That’s amazing. That’s so sweet. Yeah, I’ll be back. I’m here for Kamala and Walz this time, and, you know—10 more years, I’ll be back. 

What would it mean to you to see a Black woman elected president?

Oh, my God, I can’t even describe it. I’m sure it’s going to be a full body experience. It would be the greatest dreams of my ancestors realized. If I could see that happen, I don’t think I could want for anything else.

Do you see yourself reciting if Harris and Walz win?

That’s totally up to them. If they were to ask, I would think about it, but I honestly think I would love for Joy Harjo to recite. She’s an amazing poet, has served as U.S. Poet Laureate, and does incredible research and poetry about Native Americans and that historicity. She really deserves the spot, and the spot necessitates her.

Hope is a theme of the Democratic Party this season. It’s also a term that can sometimes feel like a buzzword. What do you make of hope as a theme? Does that word feel right to you, for where you are?

I would absolutely use hope. For me, hope isn’t something I possess—it’s something I practice. You have to wake up every day and work it like a muscle, and not in this La La Land, fake, superficial hope way where everything is fine and everything will work out, not the kind of hope that doesn’t pay attention to grief, loss, hurt, and longing. The most powerful and sustainable hope we have is hope that is invested in the totality of our human experience, and that includes the pain and the power—only then can you marshal it for worldwide change.

You’ve made your endorsement clear—are you feeling hopeful for the outcome of the election? Do you believe Harris will be President?

Absolutely. I believe she can and will win. Part of the mantra that the campaign and a lot of supporters have been using is “When we fight, we win.” And I believe in that wholeheartedly, not just for Kamala but for changemakers in general. Regardless of how the Presidential election turns out, we know that when women run that has massive impacts in our community. I think back to Hillary Clinton—a lot of people have characterized that as a failure, but when you look at the number of women politicians who entered public service, that was astronomically high after that. So I have faith that Kamala will win, and even if I’m terribly mistaken, which sometimes happens, just in the fight and just in running she will have won so many victories for us in representation and in hope. And that’s why you run—not just to become a head of a government, but also to inspire hope and dreaming in the next generation.

Let’s talk about your next book: Girls on the Rise, which is a children’s book coming in January based on an adapted version of your 2021 poem “We Rise.” The theme is obviously very apropos, so why this poem in this moment?

I’m so excited about this book because it really leans into a poem that I wrote a few years ago when I was a bit of a younger woman, and I was thinking about the importance of elevating female voices and listening to them, but also in a way that’s gender inclusive, because there’s so many ways to be and identify as a woman. So when I was thinking about my next children’s book, I really was like, in none of my children’s books has my femininity shown up in a vibrant way. Loveis Wise contributes so much in terms of the art and having this really expansive, visual definition of womanhood. I didn’t realize Kamala was going to be running when I wrote that book, but I couldn’t have chosen a more perfect time to indulge in the fantasy of having it out in the world.

Is there one line from the book that you want to call out and encourage people to hold in their minds during this season?

We are Girl,

Glowing and growing, 

Knowing where the wind is

blowing.

We are where change is going.

I love this line because it encapsulates how girls are always at the forefront of progress. 

You’re very intentional with your fashion and the colors you wear, and I’d love to hear the story behind your gown tonight at the DNC. Why did you choose it?

The dress is Solace London, in baby blue. I really like the color, not just because it’s similar to the color of the Democratic Party, but when I’m in therapy and I’m trying to envision things I want from my life—new joys, new peace—we call it my blue sky to imitate the sensation of laying in grass and looking at the sky and the clouds and daydreaming. So I really wanted to wear my blue-sky color to remind myself to dream and hope big.

And now I must know: Did you get to go see Oprah tonight?

I did get to see Oprah, which was so amazing because we’ve connected a lot—she’s done interviews with me, she bought my jewelry for the Inauguration, she’s so supportive and has been like a guardian angel on my shoulder—but we’ve never been in the same room together. I was texting her so excited, like, Oh my god, I can’t wait. To see her in person tonight was so wonderful. She gave me a big hug, and I was like, Oh, this is the stuff that Black girl magic is made of.

Read the full text of Amanda Gorman’s DNC poem, “This Sacred Scene” here:

We gather at this hallowed place
Because we believe in the American dream.
We face a race that tests if this country
We cherish shall perish from the earth,
And if our earth shall perish from this country.
It falls to us to make sure that we do not fall,
For a people that cannot stand together cannot stand at all.
We are one family,
Regardless of religion, class or color;
For what defines a patriot
Isn’t just our love of liberty,
But our love for one another–
Loud in our country’s call.
Because while we all love freedom,
It’s love that frees us all.
Empathy emancipates,
Making us greater than hate or vanity.
That is the American promise, powerful and pure:
Divided, we cannot endure,
But united, we can endeavor to humanize our democracy,
And endear democracy to humanity.
Make no mistake, cohering is the hardest task history ever wrote.
Yet tomorrow isn’t written by the odds of hardship,

But by the audacity of our hope; by the vitality of our vote.
Only now, approaching this rare air,
Are we aware that perhaps the American dream
Isn’t a dream at all, but, instead, a dare: To dream together.
Like a million roots tethered,
Branching up humbly,
Making one tree,
This is our country:
From many, one;
From battles won,
Our freedom’s rung;
Our kingdom come
Has just begun.
We redeem this sacred scene, ready for our journey from it.
Together, we must birth this early republic
And achieve an unearthly summit.
Let us not just believe in the American Dream.
Let us be worthy of it.