Full transcript of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” Aug. 25, 2024

On this “Face the Nation” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan: 

• Michael Herzog, Israeli ambassador to the U.S. 
• H.R. McMaster, former National Security Adviser
• Rep. Summer Lee, Democrat of Pennsylvania
• Rep. Pat Ryan, Democrat of New York
• Republican Oklahoma Gov. Kevin Stitt 
• Dr. Scott Gottlieb, former FDA commissioner

Click here to browse full transcripts of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan.”   

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MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m Margaret Brennan in Washington.

Today on Face the Nation, breaking news overnight: an exchange of airstrikes and missiles between Israel and Hezbollah militants based in Lebanon.

Plus: Campaign 2024 enters a new phase.

In what Israel is calling a preemptive strike against Hezbollah targets inside Lebanon and with what Iran-backed Hezbollah militants say is a retaliatory response, this morning, there remains hope of avoiding a wider conflict in the Mideast. We will have a report from Tel Aviv. And Trump administration National Security Adviser Lieutenant General H.R. McMaster will also be here.

Plus: How will the Harris/Walz campaign keep their momentum going following their glitzy Chicago convention? The record $540 million raised in the last month will certainly help. But how will they tackle tough challenges on the economy, the Mideast and immigration policy?

(Begin VT)

KAMALA HARRIS (Vice President of the United States (D) and U.S. Presidential Candidate): A strong middle class has always been critical to America’s success, and building that middle class will be a defining goal of my presidency.

(CHEERING)

(APPLAUSE)

(End VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Meanwhile, former President Trump struggles to find the right tone for his campaign.

(Begin VT)

DONALD TRUMP (Former President of the United States (R) and Current U.S. Presidential Candidate): They say to me, sir, please stick to policy. Don’t stick to personality.

(End VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We will check in with two congressional Democrats, Summer Lee from the all-important swing state of Pennsylvania, and Pat Ryan, who’s defending his battleground district in New York. Oklahoma Republican Governor Kevin Stitt will also be here.

Finally: With new COVID vaccines arriving at the end of a summer surge and ahead of the fall, we will check in with former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb.

It’s all just ahead on Face the Nation.

Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.

Overnight, there has been a military escalation in the Mideast with what could be the long-anticipated opening salvo in an expanded regional conflict. The U.S. did not participate in the Israeli strike against Hezbollah, but President Biden’s top military adviser, General C.Q. Brown, is expected in Israel today.

This escalation has not disrupted the diplomacy under way in Cairo, where CIA Director Bill Burns continues to broker a cease-fire in Gaza, as well as a hostage and prisoner exchange between Israel and Hamas.

Here in the U.S., these developments are being very closely watched from the campaign trail as the countdown to Election Day continues.

We begin with CBS News’ foreign correspondent Imtiaz Tyab in Tel Aviv.

(Begin VT)

IMTIAZ TYAB (voice-over): Israeli missile defenses intercept rockets in the skies above Northern Israel. The Iran-backed Hezbollah movement in Lebanon says it fired over 300 missiles and drones into Israeli territory.

But Israel’s military said the attack could have been much larger had it not carried out a massive overnight preemptive strike inside Southern Lebanon, apparently involving around 100 fighter jets. Hezbollah has said its strikes were in retaliation for the assassination of Fuad Shukr, one of the group’s most senior commanders, in Beirut last month.

We were at his memorial service shortly after he was killed.

The calls to avenge Fuad Shukr’s death in that Israeli assassination are only growing. People here want revenge.

A revenge attack that took Hezbollah nearly a month to carry out.

KIM GHATTAS (Contributor Writer, “The Atlantic”): How long can…

IMTIAZ TYAB: Kim Ghattas is a contributing writer at “The Atlantic” and author of “Black Wave.”

KIM GHATTAS: So, it feels to me as though everybody is, in a way, taking their time to make sure that everything is choreographed, telegraphed in a way that allows it to be to be contained.

(End VT)

IMTIAZ TYAB: And at least three fighters were killed in the Israeli strikes on Lebanon.

And Hezbollah says it killed one soldier in Israel. And while it’s hoped the threat of an all-out regional war stays contained, Margaret, Hezbollah is already warning this morning’s attack was only the first phase.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Imtiaz Tyab in Tel Aviv.

And we’re joined by the Israeli ambassador to the United States, Michael Herzog.

Ambassador, good to have you here.

MICHAEL HERZOG (Israeli Ambassador to the United States): Good morning, Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, we just heard about the casualties.

Tell me, was this friendly fire? Did Hezbollah, as they claim, actually cause some Israeli casualties?

AMBASSADOR MICHAEL HERZOG: So, what happened yesterday is that we identify concrete planning and preparation by Hezbollah to launch a massive missile and drone attack into Israel, and we carried the real-time operation in order to degrade those capabilities that were about to be launched at Israel.

We were successful. Nevertheless, they launched several hundred rockets into Israel and also drones that were aimed at Central Israel, and we intercepted all of them. One of our soldiers was killed by the debris of Israeli interceptors.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you assess at this point that we are escalating towards a regional war or that we are taking a step back? Is there risk of escalation?

AMBASSADOR MICHAEL HERZOG: I believe that the success of our operation yesterday prevented an escalation to a major war.

The threat is still there. We still need a settlement with Hezbollah in Southern Lebanon. They followed Hamas by launching the war with Israel on October 8. And they have been firing thousands of rockets into Israel since then.

We give a chance to diplomacy, and we hope it works. But, if not, we have nearly 70,000 people in Israel, Northern Israel, away from their homes, refugees in their own country, and we have to make sure they can go back safely to their homes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm, and – and many in Southern Lebanon also unable to return to their homes.

It’s being reported that Israel and Hezbollah have been trading messages back and forth not to escalate. I know that the Qatari prime minister is headed to Iran tomorrow with a message not to escalate. Do you believe that you can avoid a direct attack by Iran on Israel?

AMBASSADOR MICHAEL HERZOG: I believe so.

I think the Iranians are contemplating an attack on Israel, but decided for now to put it on hold. And I think the main reason for that was deterrent messages from Israel and the U.S. and a very strong U.S. posture in the region, which tells you that you can deter them.

MARGARET BRENNAN: There are 40,000 U.S. troops now in the region. What is it that you think General C.Q. Brown will do when he arrives in Israel later today? Is this further planning for potential attacks?

AMBASSADOR MICHAEL HERZOG: Well, as I said, we do not seek war, and we don’t believe that they seek war.

However, there is room for miscalculation. And I think part of his regional visit is to make sure that everything is under control. Again, the U.S. posture in the region is very strong and I think played a role in deterring Iran.

MARGARET BRENNAN: In Cairo, you mentioned the diplomacy that is under way. The CIA director, Bill Burns, is there, Brett McGurk, one of the president’s top advisers, as well.

Hamas has sent a political delegation to Cairo. Now, we know it is Yahya Sinwar who is the ultimate decider here, but do you see that there is momentum in these talks? Is a breakthrough that brings home the hostages possible?

AMBASSADOR MICHAEL HERZOG: We certainly hope so. As we speak, we have an Israeli delegation in Cairo, along with all the mediators and a Hamas representative, and we hope to make progress.

As Secretary Blinken said a few days ago, the U.S. put forward a bridging proposal, which was accepted by Israel, and now it’s up to Hamas to say if they accept it or not. So they did send their representative. But we’re still not 100 percent sure that they are in the game. We certainly hope so. And, if that is the case, we can make progress towards a deal.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The secretary of state did say the bridging proposal was accepted. But then your prime minister has said things publicly that seem to contradict that in terms of the specifics, particularly among that Philadelphi Corridor.

What is reality?

AMBASSADOR MICHAEL HERZOG: The reality is that we are not obliged to leave the Philadelphi Corridor at this phase. We are reducing our forces there.

We had constructive talks in Egypt a few days ago. We are well-coordinated with the U.S. administration. We’re waiting for Hamas to see if they are in the game.

MARGARET BRENNAN: When you say in this phase, are you being specific in saying that’s not part of phase one of this multiphase diplomatic deal the U.S. is trying to broker?

AMBASSADOR MICHAEL HERZOG: The deal is multiphase, as you said, but we are now focusing on phase one.

And phase one, we hope to get as many live hostages out as possible. It comes with a pause in our military operation for at least 42 days. And, in that period, we hope that, again, we can release as – get out as many live hostages as possible. Every day that passes endangers their lives.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Ambassador Herzog, thank you.

AMBASSADOR MICHAEL HERZOG: Thank you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I know it’s been a long night, so I appreciate you being live with us this morning.

AMBASSADOR MICHAEL HERZOG: Thank you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And we are joined now by CBS News foreign policy and national security contributor retired Lieutenant General H.R. McMaster. He has a new book out, “At War With Ourselves: My Tour of Duty in the Trump White House,” about his service there as national security adviser.

Welcome back to the program.

Just on the news of the moment, CENTCOM has about 40,000 U.S. troops in the region, this real muscular show of force. How concerned are you about miscalculation and blowback to those U.S. forces?

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): Yes.

Well, what I’m concerned about, Margaret, is that those forces will be constrained in what they’re able to do in response. I think what we have seen is a reluctance to act like we know what the return address is for this violence.

And, of course, the return address is Iran. And I think all Americans…

MARGARET BRENNAN: What does that mean exactly? What do you want to do..

(CROSSTALK)

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): Well, what it means is, Iran is pursuing a strategy that – in which it is willing to expend every Arab life, every Palestinian life, every Lebanese life, in pursuit of its objective of destroying Israel.

Meanwhile, Iran is continuing to funnel weapons not only into Southern Lebanon, but to essentially a proxy army in Syria, into the West Bank. And this is why the Philadelphi Corridor is so important to Israel…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): … is to keep Hamas isolated from a resupply from the Iranians as well.

At the same time, Iran is racing to produce a nuclear device. So I think what we have to recognize is this horrible situation in the region that’s been going on for 40 years, right?

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): It’s important to remember that Shukr, the Hezbollah commander…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Hezbollah.

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): … who was killed and who the – the – Hezbollah is now trying to launch these attacks in retribution for that.

I mean, he was responsible in part…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): … for the 1983 bombings that killed 241 Marines, so – in 1983.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): So, this has been going on for decades. And I think that the narrative that you constantly hear about turning down the temperature, escalation management…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): … the reluctance really to confront Iran directly and impose costs on Iran, that actually gives Iran license to escalate on their own terms with impunity.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, this is just one of many extremely serious situations that the next commander in chief will be walking into.

It doesn’t go away in January.

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): Right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And that’s why I want to get to some of what you wrote about in your book. You had this front-row seat. You advised Donald Trump on very sensitive national security matters.

You write he found it difficult to distinguish – quote – “between those who brought him sound analysis and those real or imagined who brought him hackneyed bromides. He’d say outlandish things, like go bomb the drugs in Mexico, or why don’t we take out the whole North Korean army during one of their parades?”

If Trump wins reelection, will he be able to recruit high-quality advisers who can actually help him make sound decisions?

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): Margaret, I think so, especially in confirmed positions, and if it’s a Trump administration.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Because Congress would stop him from putting someone who isn’t quality? Is that what you’re saying?

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): Well, I think so. You know, I think so, and there are people who are willing to serve who can help do what we tried to do in that first year.

And the narrative around that first year was all about chaos. But we got a lot done. And, in fact, the story is largely about overcoming that kind of infighting, that war with ourselves…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): … to produce policy outcomes that advanced America’s interests.

One of those was a dramatic reversal of the Obama administration Iran policy, which, sadly, the Biden administration has put back into place.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, Iran continued with its nuclear development after Trump exited the nuclear deal, against the advice of his secretary of state and his defense secretary.

So…

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): I’m talking more about like the sanctions relief, Margaret…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): … and the degree to which not enforcing the Trump era sanctions had really resulted in about $100 billion transferred to the Iranians, which they have used to intensify their proxy wars in the region, from Iraq to Yemen to Syria to Lebanon and obviously to Gaza with the October 7 attacks.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You detail specific examples of China’s Xi Jinping, Vladimir Putin, even Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu manipulating Donald Trump.

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): Right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And you saw it as it happened.

You wrote that: “Trump’s lack of historical knowledge made him susceptible to Xi Jinping’s efforts to generate sympathy.’

So what is the scenario you fear, that, in a second term, Donald Trump pulls U.S. troops out of Asia or that he brokers a transaction to give up Taiwan?

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): Right.

Well, I write in the book, Margaret, about this dissonance that Donald Trump carries with him, these opposing ideas that sometimes he finds it difficult to reconcile. And that’s why I think it’s important that he has a competent team around him to help him identify his own agenda.

I mean, the story in “At War With Ourselves” is in large measure my effort to guard his independence of judgment, because, in any administration, there are people who try to manipulate a president into decisions. They don’t want to give a president options.

What my experience was during that first year and a period in which we put into place a lot of these big shifts in policy is, if you give him best analysis, if you give him multiple options, it’s in the comparison of those options that he can consider the long-term costs and consequences and make sound decisions.

Also in the book, though, Margaret, I write about at times he finds it tough to stick with those decisions…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): … because people know kind of how to push his buttons, especially buttons associated with maintaining the complete support of his political base.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Manipulate him.

You also wrote a specific example where Trump wrote a flattering note to Vladimir Putin in 2018, and it happened to be the same time that this poisoning…

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: … had happened on the soil of a U.S. ally by Russia.

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): Right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: When you got home, you said to your wife: “After a year in this job, I cannot understand Putin’s hold on Trump.”

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: How do you explain that now?

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): Well, I explained it in the book.

I try to place the president’s belief that he could have a good deal with Vladimir Putin in context of the two previous presidents who thought that they could have a good deal with Putin. But, also, President Trump – and people know this – he likes big, splashy deals.

He liked – he was pursuing that with Putin. He was pursuing that with Xi Jinping.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): And, of course, Putin is the best liar in the world.

And so I struggled, Margaret, should I write about how Putin tried to manipulate President Trump or not? And I thought, well, Putin knows how he was trying to do it, so maybe, in writing about how Putin was trying to press Donald Trump’s buttons, that will make a future President Trump, if he’s elected, less susceptible to those kind of tactics.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Because he, on the campaign trail, argues these counterfactuals, that Putin was afraid of him, that Putin wouldn’t have invaded Ukraine if he had been president.

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): Well, he has a point in a couple of areas.

In that first year of the Trump administration, I tell the story of how we imposed more sanctions on Russian entities in that one year than the previous eight years of the Obama administration.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): And the really critical decision, though, Margaret, I think, was to provide the Ukrainians with defensive capabilities, especially in the form of Javelin missiles.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): But in the area of inconsistency, I also tell the story about how that support was suspended to get evidence of the Biden family’s corrupt activities in Ukraine.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The grounds for impeachment…

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): Right, absolutely.

MARGARET BRENNAN: … which basically you’re saying were justified.

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): Right. So there is…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): There’s an element in the story about how he can make really sound decisions and disrupt things that need to be disrupted in terms of foreign policy and national security…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): … but oftentimes struggles to hang on to those decisions and see them through.

MARGARET BRENNAN: H.R. McMaster, thank you. It’s an interesting read.

LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (RET.): Thanks, Margaret. Thank you, Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We will be right back.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to Pennsylvania Democratic Congresswoman Summer Lee. She joins us from Pittsburgh.

Good morning to you, Congresswoman.

REPRESENTATIVE SUMMER LEE (D-Pennsylvania): Good morning.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Our CBS polling shows that a majority of Americans, 59 percent of them, think the U.S. should encourage Israel to stop or decrease its military actions in Gaza.

At the Democratic Convention. Vice President Harris received loud applause for these remarks:

(Begin VT)

KAMALA HARRIS (Vice President of the United States (D) and U.S. Presidential Candidate): President Biden and I are working to end this war such that Israel is secure, the hostages are released, the suffering in Gaza ends, and the Palestinian people can realize their right to dignity, security, freedom and self-determination.

(CHEERING)

(APPLAUSE)

(End VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Now that is largely just restating existing U.S. policy.

Do you think that’s sufficient outreach to those who felt the administration hasn’t expressed empathy?

REPRESENTATIVE SUMMER LEE: You know, I think that – you know, I think people who are experiencing this, right, who are – who are outside of the arena, who have been organizing since October, you know, that is a step.

But I think that what they really were asking for was a – of course, the opportunity to speak for themselves. I think that, like all people, when you are experiencing something, you want to be able to tell your own story. And a lot of the people who are Palestinian, Palestinian-American, Arabs and Muslims were asking for that opportunity.

So while, you know, we all obviously believe that there should be a cease- fire immediately and permanently, and that Palestinians, just like Israelis, deserve the right to self-determination, we have to do more than just say that we believe that. We have to actually take steps that are going to evidence that, take steps that are going to show that we’re willing to start to listen to people who have been outside of the political, I would say, conversation for so long.

It’s been a third rail. And there’s going to be a lot more work that we have to do to show to this demographic that the Democratic Party is – includes them in its big tent, includes them in our foreign policy considerations, and also includes them in our conversations around humanity and human rights.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You’re talking about the decision at the DNC to deny anyone from the Uncommitted Movement or Palestinian-American to take the stage.

Congressman Ro Khanna tweeted: “It was a tragic mistake, perpetuating the erasure of the Palestinian story and voice.”

Why do you think Democratic leaders resisted it, and is it a self-inflicted wound?

REPRESENTATIVE SUMMER LEE: I think that there has been – and I think that, if you really look at this, long before October 7, it was almost taboo to talk about Palestinians, to talk about the experiences that they have and that they continue to have in our politics.

And I think that this was a continuation of it. To put on stage – first of all, I think it’s important that we recognize that even the way we talk about the movement is in a way that sometimes is a little wide – it’s broad.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.

REPRESENTATIVE SUMMER LEE: It doesn’t always take into account what folks are arguing about.

I think that, whether it’s the Black lives movement or the movement for Palestinian rights, there’s always this rush to say that their movement, the ways that they protest, the tactics, the strategies are inconvenient. And I think that that’s just the way that we’ve done it, especially when we’re nervous about a presidential election that we all know is incredibly important.

Defeating Trump is the top concern, but we can do that, and we can also give space, create space for people, voices that are marginalized. We missed an opportunity to do that here. And in doing so, what we are essentially saying is that every Palestinian thinks the exact same way, that all folks who are protesting who are voicing their concerns are one group, and not individuals, not all folks who are coming with different perspectives.

I think that there was room and space to say that…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE SUMMER LEE: … there is room in the Democratic Party for that particular perspective as well.

MARGARET BRENNAN: This was a historic nomination of Vice President Harris as the first black, first South Asian nominee of a major party.

She’s chosen really not to talk about the historic nature of that. Do you think that she should?

REPRESENTATIVE SUMMER LEE: I think that it speaks for itself.

You know, I think that there is, you know, zero chance that folks all across America do not recognize that she would be the first Black woman, the first South Asian woman in person, to be not just our party’s nominee, but hopefully our president.

So, to talk about it, it’s almost a filler. I think that what’s – I think that what they’re doing and what they should be doing is talking about the issues…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.

REPRESENTATIVE SUMMER LEE: … talking about the things that not…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE SUMMER LEE: … are not just unique to women, black women, Asian women…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE SUMMER LEE: … but actually the things that make her qualified for the job…

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

REPRESENTATIVE SUMMER LEE: … her – her resume, the policies that that bring Democrats to – to vote…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes, let’s – let’s talk about those things…

REPRESENTATIVE SUMMER LEE: … you know, on November 5. Those are things that we’re going to need to focus on. We all know there’s history here.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Congresswoman, let’s talk about those things on the other side of this next break.

Stay with us.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Just ahead, we talk to former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb, as well as New York Congressman Pat Ryan, and Oklahoma Republican Governor Kevin Stitt.

So, stay with us.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION.

We’re continuing our conversation now with Congresswoman Summer Lee of Pennsylvania.

Congresswoman, you were talking before the break about the need to focus on issues for – for the campaign. This past week former Speaker Pelosi stated Vice President Harris will, quote, “have to govern from the center because that’s where the public is.”

I know you are a progressive Democrat. Do you think that this pivot to the center, particularly on issues like the border and immigration and crime, are they going to hurt support for the Harris-Walz ticket or is it – what’s required?

REPRESENTATIVE SUMMER LEE (D-PA): Yes. So, I have to say, and I – and I like to hope that we’re able to do this. I have to – I have to disagree a bit. I think that we have data, we have polling, we have anecdotal evidence from American – Americans all over the country, but especially out in Pennsylvania, in a swing state, where we’re not actually asking for our – our candidates to run away from progressive ideals. We’re asking them for – for them to run to them.

You know, there’s this idea that to say that, you know, having health care or an equitable education or even talking about, you know, immigration reform and the border in a humane way is somehow to the left. But I think that that’s what the average American wants. And I think that in too many – in very many ways we’ve ceded ground to Republicans, especially around immigration. They have the tendency of talking about it in incredibly fear mongering and inhumane way. And I don’t think that it’s wise that we join them in that. I think people want to see us distinguish ourselves as a party. I think they want to see that we offer solutions for working class people, for marginalized people. And I think that we can do that vocally and proudly and still bring people to the party and not have them run away from it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. So, that means you disagree with the Harris endorsement of the bipartisan border bill, which was a fairly conservative bill, and that’s the policy stated for what the vice president would enact if she’s elected?

REPRESENTATIVE SUMMER LEE: I think that what I’d like to hope – I hope that – what I think so many of us want to see, and not just progressives, I mean even just Democrats, is that we can recognize that we need comprehensive immigration reform. That there are millions of folks in America who are impacted by this. Folks who want to come here for a better life. Who are looking for opportunities. And they are finding that the pathway, the window to achieving those opportunities is shutting, not opening.

We know that in the past there were systems in place that – that created a – an easier pathway for folks to obtain citizenship, for folks to work, for folks to contribute. And that’s what people want now. And I think that we need to be real about the solutions, what’s driving folks to our border.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE SUMMER LEE: And what’s driving folks to want to make a life here in the United States at the same time.

MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, Congresswoman Lee, thank you for your perspective.

For a slightly different one from a fellow Democrat, we are joined now by New York Congressman Pat Ryan.

Good morning.

REPRESENTATIVE PAT RYAN (D-NY): Hey, how are you doing, Margaret?

MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m doing well.

You know, you were at the DNC this week speaking on stage. You were one of the very first House Democrats to call out and publicly say Joe Biden needed to pass the torch.

You’re in a tight re-election race in – in Hudson Valley, New York. Do you think that having Kamala Harris at the top of the ticket makes it easier for you to win than if Joe Biden had stayed?

REPRESENTATIVE PAT RYAN: Without question. I mean, coming out of the DNC, and – and for the last now month plus we have just seen such energy, such enthusiasm, such true joy and optimism at a time when even, this morning in your coverage, it’s a challenging, dark and divided time. And that’s what people in my district are – are desperate for. That – that is what we’ve been working on.

When Kamala Harris talks about freedom, patriotism, reproductive freedom, economic freedom, freedom to breathe clean air and water, that is what folks, regardless of party, they want to believe in something, to be for something. And she has delivered that. And I think over the next 72 days we’re going to see that momentum continue to build.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The former speaker points to five seats in New York state as determining the difference between Democrats having a minority or majority spot in Congress. You are one of those seats. Do you think that now Democrats have a better shot at gaining the majority?

REPRESENTATIVE PAT RYAN: Yes, no doubt.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Definitely?

REPRESENTATIVE PAT RYAN: No doubt. It’s just been a sea change. I mean, I won my last race by 1.3 percent.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Exactly.

REPRESENTATIVE PAT RYAN: Very attune to what’s happening in my district and talking to folks all day, every day. It has been just kind of putting rocket fuel into a jet engine and seeing blast off. It’s such – it’s so important, I think, to understand, it’s one thing to be against a set of things –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

REPRESENTATIVE PAT RYAN: But – but to be for a set of things and a set – and for core freedoms, that is – that’s rallying people.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, so then let’s put this in specific terms because some of the policies aren’t that different from Joe Biden’s policies. In fact, they’re exactly the same on – on the border. And you, when you issued that statement calling for Biden to step aside, you called for him to restore order at the border. Your district has been hit with a lot of migrants being sent from New York City up to the Hudson Valley. What is any different about the Harris platform on the border?

REPRESENTATIVE PAT RYAN: I served 27 months in combat. I know what it means to secure a border. And I think foundational to the responsibilities of a nation state is to secure the border. That – that’s not a partisan thing, that’s a widely held view. So, I – I did, you know, call on and sort of call out President Biden in not doing enough. They’ve – they’ve – they’ve –

MARGARET BRENNAN: But that was the Biden-Harris policy.

REPRESENTATIVE PAT RYAN: They’ve stepped up. And wat we heard from Vice President Harris at the convention, in her speech, was exactly what folks in my district want to hear, which is, we’re going to secure the border, restore order at the border, but not lose who we are as Americans to welcome folks that want to come here, make a better life, serve our country, make it better and stronger. We can do both. We will do both.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, but it’s still not articulated as a different policy in the specifics. We haven’t heard the vice president at least say things in detail.

But on the issue of abortion, which is already protected in New York state up to 24 weeks, after that point it has to be that the mother’s life is at risk for that procedure to be taken, but it’s going to be on the ballot in some form or fashion in November. Do you think that this is just about driving up turnout?

REPRESENTATIVE PAT RYAN: The whole founding –

MARGARET BRENNAN: It’s already protected (INAUDIBLE).

REPRESENTATIVE PAT RYAN: The whole founding ideology of our country is about freedom. People don’t forget that just two years ago the – Trump’s appointees to the Supreme Court ripped away a fundamental freedom. There have been more states across the country now taking away American freedoms.

You want to piss off the American people, take their freedom away.

And so this is – this is not like a political thing again. This gets to the core of who we are.

And so in New York, things like the Comstock Act that are on the books, outlined in Project 2025, even without congressional action, the Trump – hypothetical Trump administration says they can put in place essentially a backdoor national abortion ban. We are stand ug up against that, as Democrats, really as Americans though. And that will be a huge issue in my district.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Trump and Vance haven’t been very clear on the Comstock Act. I asked vice – I asked J.D. Vance a lot of questions about it just a few weeks ago.

Just to put that aside, though, I want to ask you about Afghanistan, because in your – in your call for Joe Biden to step aside, you also pointed to that as a Biden-Harris problem. In fact, you said it was a strategic and a moral failure, that withdraw. The vice president says she was that last person in the room on that decision. Is that failure also hers?

REPRESENTATIVE PAT RYAN: We’ve got to stop assigning partisan blame on fundamental things like our national security.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You said that.

REPRESENTATIVE PAT RYAN: I – I said it as an American. I said it as someone who served in combat, who had friends that served in Afghanistan. If we can’t make mistakes and – and wrestle with that, with a little bit of space to do better in the future, how do we expect to continue on the next 250 years as this great country that we are?

So, we have to be – and I’ve called on presidents of both parties when I disagree with them, on behalf of my constituents, on behalf of what I think is right for the country. So, we have to be able to do that.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I bring that up because we are coming up on the three- year anniversary of that withdraw and that fatal attack at Abbey Gate where 13 service people lost their lives in the ISIS-k suicide bombing. The family members of some of those service people took the stage at the RNC and said that President Biden hasn’t spoken their names and how hurtful that was to them.

Do you think the vice president should speak to that now this week?

REPRESENTATIVE PAT RYAN: Well, I’ll let the vice president make her decisions about things like that. What I do think we need to recognize is, you want to talk about how we’re speaking to veterans and military families. Just ten days ago Donald Trump got up and said, Medal of Honor recipients, the most revered hero’s in our country’s history, there’s only 62 living Medal of Honor recipients in the United States, he directly denigrated and insulted them, on top of years of insulting gold star families, calling our troops suckers and losers. That’s something I spoke about at the convention.

And I believe we’re in a place where the Democratic Party is a party of patriots. Folks voting for Kamala Harris can feel that they are doing – and I certainly feel – their patriotic duty to bring our country together, stop insulting veterans and military families that have made the ultimate sacrifice. And Kamala Harris has done that and – and will continue to do that.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But it would mean something to those in your district if that loss was acknowledged this week?

REPRESENTATIVE PAT RYAN: Wel, I think that it would mean a lot to the family members, of course, to acknowledge their – their loss.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

REPRESENTATIVE PAT RYAN: And, you know, we’ve lost far too many veterans, not just in active duty combat –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE PAT RYAN: But we’ve talked about this before, coming home. We’ve now lost more Iraq and Afghanistan veterans to suicide than we lost in active duty.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE PAT RYAN: So, we need to properly fund the VA. Another thing that Donald Trump failed to do.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE PAT RYAN: And so it’s a – these are important, stark choices ahead.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Congressman – Congressman, good to have you here.

REPRESENTATIVE PAT RYAN: Thanks, Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be right back.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to Republican Oklahoma Governor Kevin Stitt from Oklahoma City.

Good morning to you, Governor.

GOVERNOR KEVIN STITT (R-OK): Hey, good morning. Good to be with you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, one of the biggest drivers of inflation right now are shelter costs. And I know in a previous life you founded a mortgage business. So, I want to tap in to something that’s also a problem in Oklahoma, and that is the housing shortage.

Donald Trump was asked earlier this week when he was out campaigning in Nevada his plan. And he said he would like to release more federal lands to allow homes to be built.

Is that sufficient?

GOVERNOR KEVIN STITT: Well, first off, thanks for – thanks for having me on.

You know, I’ll tell you this, as a businessman before I became governor, I was in the mortgage business. And the last thing that you want to do is the Kamala – the Vice President Harris plan, which is to put $25,000 more into every single person’s pocket for the purpose of buying houses, because if you increase demand without fixing this –

MARGARET BRENNAN: But for first-time home owners.

GOVERNOR KEVIN STITT: For first-time home buyers, that’s correct. But if you throw the demand side up without fixing supply, what happens to pricing? You’re actually exasperating the problem. Prices for housing goes up.

So, the solution that President Trump’s talking about, and it’s the correct solution, is to eliminate permitting reform, get permitting reform, make it easier for developers, make it easier for people to develop and build houses, get rid of regulations. That’s the – that’s the free market principles that we believe in. And we know are the correct way to do it.

I mean if – when you think about it –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well –

GOVERNOR KEVIN STITT: Listen – go ahead.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Sorry. The vice president said she also wants to create 3 million homes. So, she is talking about adding to supply. But on the Republican Party platform, because we went to look at it, it says that Republicans will reduce mortgage rates by slashing inflation – that’s really a Fed decision, right – but also open portions of federal lands to allow for new home construction. Sounds very much the same as the Harris plan. And then promote home ownership through tax incentives and support for first-time buyers. Also sounds very similar to the Harris plan. So, what’s different?

GOVERNOR KEVIN STITT: Well, first off, there are so many first-time home buyer programs right now. And my question to you – and this is a great question for Vice President Harris – who’s going to build the 3 million homes?

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

GOVERNOR KEVIN STITT: I mean, basically, we believe either in a free market system or we believe in government intervention. And so the bottom line is, you’re going to drive up the cost – the reason we have 20 percent inflation under a Biden-Harris administration right now is because of all of the attacks on energy, for example, the bureaucracy. We need permitting reform. We need deregulation. We need to unlock American businesses to meet the needs of Americans.

Basically, when you have municipalities stopping new developments for lot sizes and for first-time home buyers, that’s the things you need to do. By increasing and throwing more money and giving – like, think about it for a second. This ticket – and I know Governor Walz. I’m friends with him in the National Governors Association. He’s a nice guy. I’ve met – I’ve met Vice President Harris a couple times. She seems like a nice person.

But if you think about the Democratic ticket, they’ve never worked in the private sector. They’ve – and so their policies are showing that. You can’t give every single first-time home buyer $25,000 and expect the prices of houses to come down. That’s just not the way the economy works. That’s –

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

GOVERNOR KEVIN STITT: That’s socialism. That’s – that’s communism.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, yes. It’s not clear what the Republican platform means when they say tax incentives and support for first-time buyers. So, it’s not – it’s not clear to – how – what their detailed option is when they say also helping those first-time buyers.

But on the economy, your state has a law that prohibits an increase of more than 10 percent for the price of goods and services during emergencies. The Harris campaign wants federal restrictions on those kind of price jumps. Why do you oppose it at the federal level if you have something at the state level?

GOVERNOR KEVIN STITT: Well, what we’re talking about on the state level, if we have a natural disaster. For example, if there’s a tornado that comes through our of our communities, we don’t want out-of-state people coming in and price gouging as far as roofing, materials. So, when I declare a national – an executive order and say this area of the state has been hurt, it’s for a short period of time. It’s maybe for a month. And that’s just to protect the people from really people coming in to – to – to try to make money off of this disaster. So, that’s totally different than what I see this administration, the Vice President Harris, recommending. So, she’s saying – here’s – here’s the problem that doesn’t make sense to the American people, and you need to question her on this. OK, so she’s going to tell grocery stores that the maximum you can pay –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

GOVERNOR KEVIN STITT: For milk and charge for milk is $1.99. MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. Well, they’re saying they’re not doing that.

GOVERNOR KEVIN STITT: Well, what happens to the famers if the costs are more than that?

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

GOVERNOR KEVIN STITT: OK, what are they saying they’re doing?

MARGARET BRENNAN: I would love to put those questions, but –

GOVERNOR KEVIN STITT: What’s price control then?

MARGARET BRENNAN: I got you for – for a question. You are backing President Trump. Early on you had supported the governor of Florida, Ron DeSantis. And he had warned Republicans about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOVERNOR RON DESANTIS (R-FL): You’re not going to be talking about the border. You’re not going to be talking about the economy. You’re going to be talking about all these things to make the election a referendum on Donald Trump.

Whereas, if I’m the nominee, we’ll be solely focused on the issues that matter to the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Is President Trump getting in his own way on his own messaging?

GOVERNOR KEVIN STITT: You know, I’m not going to defend what Vice President Harris said in the convention against President Trump or what President Trump is saying. This is – this is not about winning an argument. And I – and I think the American people are really tired of that.

Let’s – we have to get back to asking questions about policy.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

GOVERNOR KEVIN STITT: And Vice President Harris’ policies have led to 20 percent increase in inflation. And I think the American people, at the end of the day –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

GOVERNOR KEVIN STITT: When they ask themselves, were they better off –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

GOVERNOR KEVIN STITT: When President Trump was in office? The answer is going to be yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

GOVERNOR KEVIN STITT: And so, President Trump’s the – the nominee. He has the best policies. And I believe he’s going to win in November.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Governor, thank you for joining us.

We’ll be back in a moment.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’re joined by former FDA Commissioner, and Pfizer board member, Dr. Scott Gottlieb.

Good to have you here.

SCOTT GOTTLIEB (former FDA Commissioner): Good morning.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, this is a Covid summer surge. The CDC says we may be at the peak or about to pass it now.

The Biden administration has just made free testing available that will come at the end of the month. The new booster shot was just approved. Is this just playing catch up here?

SCOTT GOTTLIEB: I don’t think so. I think the timing’s about right in terms of rolling out the vaccine and the tests that will be available for people in the winter time.

Look, we’ve had these summer surges and then a subsequent winter surge now a couple of seasons in a row. So, I think we need to start to understand, this is probably the predictable pattern for this virus for the foreseeable future.

It’s going to be hard to have a vaccine available earlier than they have had it this year. They’ve got the vaccine out earlier than they have in the past, in part to try to time it with the flu vaccine, so that when people go into the pharmacy, they can get both a Covid vaccine and a flu vaccine, which I think is going to be important for a lot of older Americans.

It is the case that we do see these summer surges, and we will have to think about how we protect people better in the future. I think the idea of having a dual vaccine, having two vaccines per year, that may be a difficult thing just from a manufacturing and a production standpoint.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, this booster is about KP.2 variant.

SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: KP.3 is what is swirling around now apparently. It will still protect you?

SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Yes, so the data right now, it’s pre-clinical data. So, it’s data looking at whether or not the antibodies that are produced as a result of getting vaccinated from KP.2 will also neutralize this KP.3 strain. That data looks encouraging. And we rely on that data. That neutralizing antibody days. We’ve historically relied on it. And it’s been a good proxy for how effective the vaccine is going to be.

So, this vaccine should protect against KP.3. About a third of the cases of KP.3 right now. I don’t believe that the winter surge, and we’re likely to see a winter surge of Covid, is going to be from KP.3. Right now, if you look across the country, Covid cases are starting to decline in most parts of the country. Perhaps the northeast is still rising, parts of the west. States like Utah and Colorado. But we should be through most of this summer surge. Cases should start to continue to come down. And in what ultimately emerges in the wintertime, we don’t know yet.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, when do you get it? The vaccine, that is. And the guidance from the CDC is, once your fever breaks, count five days and you’re good to go. That’s not necessarily going to stop transmission, is it?

SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Yes, look, I think people who get Covid and recover from Covid, probably should use an antigen test to see when they’re no longer infectious. If you’re still registering on an antigen test, you’re likely still shedding some virus, although your infectivity probably has come down a lot when you’re five, six days out.

I think for Americans who are going into settings where there’s people who are at risk, where they work in confined spaces, where people may be vulnerable, they may need to take some added precautions if they’re recovering from an infection and still testing positive on the antigen test. There’s no really, you know, golden rule in terms of when people aren’t infective anymore. If you want to be vigilant, use an antigen test to look for that.

In terms of when to get the vaccine, for most Americans getting it sometime in September, or maybe early October is going to be sufficient to try to protect them from that winter surge. I think a lot of Americans were worried about the current surge and there’s still a lot of virus around, could go out and get the vaccine right now because they could still catch Covid from this current wave of infection.

For people who have been infected, they likely have several months of good protection from that recent infection. So, they may want to wait a little bit longer, that way when they do get vaccinated, maybe late October, that vaccine will extend further. Because we know that the immunity provided by the vaccines only lasts a defined period of time, three, four, five months.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And it’s – it’s a serious strain, I’ll – I’ll – I’ll say that. The CDC said that they saw a high number of children under five going to the ER. Why are kids being impacted like that?

SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Well, part of that is that kids don’t have baseline immunity. So, a lot of adults have baseline immunity. So, when you look at the statistics on who’s going to the emergency room, overall, about 2.4 percent of all emergency room visits are for Covid right now. But for the cohort over the age of 65, that’s about 3.4 percent. So, 3.4 percent of all people over the age of 65 who go to the emergency room for any reason are going there for Covid.

In children under the age of five, it’s 5.8 percent. So, a higher proportion of kids who go to the emergency room are going to the emergency room for Covid. They’re getting sick because they don’t have baseline immunity. They haven’t been infected before. They haven’t been vaccinated.

I think part of it’s also that parents are more likely to take a sick child to the emergency room than take themselves to the emergency room. So, that’s some of what’s baked into that.

MARGARET BRENNAN: It’s hard to get a kid vaccinated though.

SCOTT GOTTLIEB: It’s hard to –

MARGARET BRENNAN: To find a –

SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Find a place that vaccinates toddlers.

So, I – if you think of CVS, for example, most of their pharmacies won’t vaccinate toddlers. It’s only the pharmacies that have mini (ph) clinics. A lot of pediatricians don’t stock the under five vaccine because a lot of parents aren’t asking for it. If your pediatrician doesn’t have the vaccine, and you want to vaccinate your child, you can ask them to order it and it should be available within 24 to 48 hours.

MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, Dr. Gottlieb, I have so many more questions for you but we have to leave it there for right now.

SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Thanks a lot.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be right back.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s it for us today. Thank you for watching. Until next week, for FACE THE NATION, I’m Margaret Brennan.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

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