Transcript: H.R. McMaster, former National Security Adviser, on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” Aug. 25, 2024

The following is a transcript of an interview with H.R. McMaster, former National Security Adviser, on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” that aired on Aug. 25, 2024.

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MARGARET BRENNAN: And we are joined now by CBS News Foreign Policy and National Security Contributor, retired Lieutenant General H.R. McMaster. He has a new book out, “At War With Ourselves: My Tour of Duty in the Trump White House,” about his service there as National Security Advisor. Welcome back to the program. Just on the news of the moment, CENTCOM has about 40,000 U.S. troops in the region, this real muscular show of force. How concerned are you about miscalculation and blowback to those U.S. forces?

LT. GENERAL H.R. MCMASTER: Yeah. Well, what I’m- what I’m concerned about, Margaret, is that those forces will be constrained in what they’re able to do in response. I think what we’ve seen is a reluctance to act like we know what the return address is for- for this violence. And of course, the return address is- is Iran. And I think all Americans–

MARGARET BRENNAN: What does that mean, exactly?

LT. GENERAL H.R. MCMASTER: Well, what it means is–

MARGARET BRENNAN: What do you want to do to Iran?

LT. GENERAL H.R. MCMASTER: Iran is pursuing a strategy that- in- in which it is willing to expend every Arab life, every Palestinian life, every Lebanese life, in pursuit of its objective of destroying Israel. Meanwhile, Iran is continuing to funnel weapons, not only into southern Lebanon, but to essentially a proxy army in Syria, into the West Bank. And this is why the Philadelphi Corridor so important to Israel, is to keep Hamas isolated from a resupply from the Iranians as well. At the same time, Iran is racing to produce a nuclear device. So I think what we have to recognize is this horrible situation in the region that’s been going on for 40 years, right? It’s important to remember that Shukr, the- the- the Hezbollah commander, who was- who was killed, and- and- who the- the Hezbollah is now trying to launch these attacks in retribution for that. I mean, he was responsible, in part, for the 1983 bombings that- that killed 241 Marines, so- in 1983. So this has been going on for decades. And I think that the narrative that you constantly hear about turning down the temperature, escalation management, the reluctance, really, to confront Iran directly and impose costs on Iran, that actually gives Iran license to escalate on their own terms, with impunity. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, this is just one of many extremely serious situations that the next commander in chief will be walking into. It doesn’t go away in January. And that’s why I want to get to some of what you wrote about in your book. You had this front row seat. You advised Donald Trump on very sensitive national security matters. You write, he found it difficult to distinguish, quote, “between those who brought him sound analysis and those, real or imagined, who brought him hackneyed bromides.” He’d say outlandish things, like, go “bomb the drugs” in Mexico, or, “why don’t we take out the whole North Korean army during one of their parades?” If Trump wins re-election, will he be able to recruit high quality advisors who can actually help him make sound decisions?

LT. GENERAL H.R. MCMASTER: Margaret, I think so, especially in confirmed positions. And if it’s a Trump administration–

MARGARET BRENNAN: Because Congress would stop him from putting someone who isn’t quality? Is that what you’re saying?

LT. GENERAL H.R. MCMASTER: Well, yeah, I think so. You know, I think so. And- and there are people who are willing to serve, who can help do what we tried to do in that first year. And you know, the- the narrative around that first year was all about chaos, but we got a lot done. In fact, the story is largely about overcoming that kind of infighting, that- that war with ourselves, to produce policy outcomes that advanced America’s interests. One of those was a dramatic reversal of the Obama administration Iran policy, which, sadly, the Biden administration has put back into place.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, Iran continued with its nuclear development after Trump exited the- the nuclear deal, against the advice of his secretary of state and his defense secretary. So– 

LT. GENERAL H.R. MCMASTER: I’m talking more about, like, the sanctions relief, Margaret, and the degree to which not enforcing the Trump era sanctions had really resulted in about $100 billion transferred to the Iranians, which they’ve used to intensify their proxy wars in the region, from Iraq, to Yemen, to Syria, to Lebanon, and obviously to Gaza, with the October 7 attacks.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You detail specific examples of China’s Xi Jinping, Vladimir Putin, even Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, manipulating Donald Trump, and you saw it as it happened. You wrote that, “Trump’s lack of historical knowledge made him susceptible to Xi Jinping’s efforts to generate sympathy.” So what is the scenario you fear? That in a second term, Donald Trump pulls U.S. troops out of Asia, or that he brokers a transaction to give up Taiwan?

LT. GENERAL H.R. MCMASTER: Right. Well, I write in the book, Margaret, about this dissonance, you know, that- that Donald Trump carries with him, these opposing ideas that sometimes he finds it difficult to reconcile. And that’s why I think it’s important that he has a competent team around him to help him identify his own agenda. I mean, the story in “At War With Ourselves,” is in large measure, my effort to guard his independence of judgment, because in any administration, there are people who try to manipulate a president into decisions. They don’t want to give a president options. What my experience was, during that first year period in which we put into place a lot of these big shifts in policy, is, if you give him best analysis, if you give him multiple options, it’s in the comparison of those options that- that he can consider the long term costs and consequences and make sound decisions. Also in the book, though, Margaret, I write about at times, he finds it tough to stick with those decisions, because people know kind of how to push his buttons, especially buttons associated with maintaining the complete support of his- of his political base.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Manipulate him. You- you also wrote a specific example where Trump wrote a flattering note to Vladimir Putin in 2018 and it happened to be the same time that this poisoning had happened on the soil of a U.S. ally by Russia.

LT. GENERAL H.R. MCMASTER: Right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: When you got home, you said to your wife, “After [over] a year in this job, I cannot understand Putin’s hold on Trump.” How do you explain that now?

LT. GENERAL H.R. MCMASTER: Well, I explained it in the book. I try to place the president’s belief that he could have a good deal with Vladimir Putin in context of the two previous presidents who thought that they could have a good deal with- with Putin. But also, you know, President Trump, and people know this, he- he likes big splashy deals. He liked- he was pursuing that with Putin. He was pursuing that with Xi Jinping. And of course, Putin is the best liar in the world. And so I struggled, Margaret, should I write about how Putin tried to manipulate President Trump, or not? And I thought, well, Putin knows how he was trying to do it. So maybe in writing about how Putin was trying to press Donald Trump’s buttons, that will make a future President Trump, if he’s elected, less susceptible to those kind of tactics. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: Because he, on the campaign trail, argues these counterfactuals, that Putin was afraid of him, that Putin wouldn’t have invaded Ukraine if he had been President. 

LT. GENERAL H.R. MCMASTER: Well, he has a point in a couple of areas. In that first year of the Trump administration, I tell the story of how we imposed more sanctions on Russian entities in that one year than the previous eight years of the Obama administration. And the really critical decision, though, Margaret, I think, was to provide Ukrainians with defensive capabilities, especially in the form of Javelin missiles. But in the area of inconsistency, I also tell the story about how that support was suspended, you know, to get- to get, you know, evidence of- of the Biden family’s corrupt activities in Ukraine.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The grounds for impeachment. 

LT. GENERAL H.R. MCMASTER: Right, absolutely.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Which basically, you’re saying, were justified.

LT. GENERAL H.R. MCMASTER: So- so there is, there’s an element in the story about how he can make really sound decisions and disrupt things that need to be disrupted in terms of foreign policy, national security, but oftentimes struggles to hang on to those decisions and- and see them through.

MARGARET BRENNAN: H.R. McMaster, thank you. It’s an interesting read.

LT. GENERAL H.R. MCMASTER: Thank you, Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be right back.