John Kelly says Trump is “certainly an authoritarian,” fits the definition of a fascist

Washington — Former Marine Corps Gen. John Kelly, Donald Trump’s longest-serving White House chief of staff, said in a new interview that Trump prefers a dictatorial approach to government, occasionally remarked that Adolf Hitler “did some good things” and disliked appearing alongside amputee veterans.

Speaking with The New York Times two weeks from Election Day, Kelly shared what he says his former boss said about service members and disabled veterans, as well as how Kelly believes the former president would prefer to govern. Kelly said he would never tell Americans who to vote for, but, as Trump’s chief of staff from July 2017 to January 2019, he had a front-row seat to Trump’s reactions, habits of speech and actions.

The New York Times’ Michael Schmidt asked Kelly if he thinks Trump is a fascist. 

“Well, looking at the definition of fascism: It’s a far-right authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy,” Kelly said. “So certainly, in my experience, those are the kinds of things that he thinks would work better in terms of running America … Certainly the former president is in the far-right area, he’s certainly an authoritarian, admires people who are dictators — he has said that. So he certainly falls into the general definition of fascist, for sure.”

Perhaps most concerning to Kelly, as a longtime military officer, is how Trump “could never wrap his arms around why people would serve the country in uniform,” he said. Schmidt asked if Trump said more than once that service members who die for America on the battlefield were “suckers and losers.”

“Yes,” Kelly responded, saying Trump would often get on a tangent about the late Sen. John McCain’s military service. Trump has repeatedly criticized McCain, saying in 2015 that he likes “people who weren’t captured.” 

“He would say it at times, sometimes unexpectedly, but he never could wrap his arms around why people would serve the country in uniform,” Kelly said. “What was in it for them? That was a general theme.” 

In response to Kelly’s New York Times interview, the Trump campaign said Kelly’s stories are “debunked” and “fabricated.” 

“John Kelly has totally beclowned himself with these debunked stories he has fabricated because he failed to serve his president well while working as chief of staff and currently suffers from a debilitating case of Trump Derangement Syndrome,” said Trump campaign communications director Steven Cheung. “President Trump has always honored the service and sacrifice of all of our military men and women, whereas Kamala Harris has completely disrespected the families of those who gave the ultimate sacrifice, including the Abbey Gate 13.”

Kelly said Trump would also say “it doesn’t look good for me” to stand alongside veterans who have lost limbs. 

“Well, certainly his, his not wanting to be seen with amputees, amputees that lost their limbs in defense of this country fighting for every American, him included, to protect them, but didn’t want to be seen with them,” Kelly said. “That’s an interesting perspective for a commander in chief to have.”

“He would just say, ‘Look, it doesn’t look good for me,'” Kelly added. “So anyways, I don’t know. Not a psychiatrist. If you’re a psychiatrist, I guess you could take a stab at some of these questions, but I’m not.” 

Kelly said the former president would also “occasionally” say Hitler “did some good things, too.”

“He commented more than once that, ‘You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'” Kelly said Trump told him. “And of course, if you know history, again I think he’s lacking in that. If you know what history was all about, it would be pretty hard to make an argument that he did anything good.”

Kelly also recounted his conversations with Trump about Hitler in a story published by The Atlantic on Tuesday.

Kelly told the Times that Trump “certainly prefers the dictator approach to government” and “admires people who are dictators.” 

“I think he’d love to be just like he was in business — he could tell people to do things and they would do it,” Kelly said, acknowledging that he didn’t know Trump when he was only a businessman, before his venture into presidential politics. “And not really bother too much about whether what the legalities were and whatnot.”

On Wednesday afternoon, Vice President Kamala Harris delivered a statement from the vice president’s residence, condemning Trump’s remarks as recalled by Kelly, saying Trump wants “unchecked power.” 

“It is deeply troubling and incredibly dangerous that Donald Trump would invoke Adolf Hitler, the man who is responsible for the deaths of 6 million Jews and hundreds of thousands of Americans,” Harris said. “This is a window into who Donald Trump really is, from the people who know him best, from the people who worked with him side by side in the Oval Office and in the Situation Room.”

She added: “Donald Trump is increasingly unhinged and unstable, and in a second term, people like John Kelly would not be there to be the guard rails against his propensities and his actions.”

Jacob Rosen

contributed to this report.