Marlon Wayans, Julia Fox and Tyriq Withers recently sat down with BAFTA to promote their new sports horror movie, “HIM.” At one point during the interview, the trio were asked why they think it’s important to make movies that explore toxic masculinity and what a “real man” is — and Fox quickly made it clear that she wasn’t satisfied with Wayans’ response.
“I think the youth needs to hear what real men are. You know, there’s masculine…” Wayans began before being cut off by Fox, who pulled a face and asked, “But what are real men?”
“Right,” Wayans continued. “To me, a real man is a responsible man—” he said before being interrupted again. Fox interjected, “’Cause every time a man does some fuck shit, they’ll be like, ’That’s not a real man!’ And it’s like, ‘Looks like a man to me!’”
Wayans attempted to continue speaking, stating, “I think a real man is in touch with his feminine side.” However, he was interrupted yet again by Fox, who said, “Looks like a duck, and it walks like a duck.”
Wayans continued, “I think a real man knows how to unstrap from his ego—” but Fox interjected again and said, “I don’t know. I think the ‘real man’ thing is just the thing that people invented to excuse bad behavior. Like, all men are real men.”
Wayans then pointed at Fox and quipped, “Said like a real man!”
Withers then shared his two cents, noting, “I think, to further add on to what she’s saying, I think there’s this false narrative of what real men do. I think it’s tied into privilege and masculinity, and I think exploring that in films is important because we’re raising these young boys to be men, and we can go that extra step to educate boys…of how to tap into the femininity, the vulnerability. That way, we can further protect women.”
Fox did not interrupt Withers at all while he was speaking, and instead seemed to nod in agreement. You can watch the clip for yourself here:
This interaction has since picked up steam online, sparking a very mixed response. On one hand, loads of internet users praised Fox. “She’s absolutely right,” one comment read, while someone else elaborated, “@Julia fox is right to call this out. ‘Real man’ is another way to say a ‘nice guy’ and perpetuates the idea that only ‘bad’ men/people do hurtful things. Humans contain multitudes.”
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“all the things people say real men are are usually just normal adult things,” one person wrote, while another comment with over 13,000 likes read, “Interrupt him queen.”
However, several other people called Fox’s behavior “incredibly rude” and a display of “toxic femininity.” “this is what happens when people prioritise performance over substance when it comes to personal politics… bc besides cutting him off, she wasn’t actually talking to him & what he was saying in that moment; she was responding to a whole different conversation she’d heard before,” one person suggested.
“Marlon was giving a thoughtful, non-toxic definition of being a real man and she interrupted him multiple times,” someone said. “Would have LOVED to hear Marlon speak,” another comment read.
Loads of people went on to suggest that Fox’s behavior reflected aspects of white feminism, which tends to center and uplift white women while disregarding the perspectives of other marginalized groups.
“This was so annoying. Julia was triggered by hearing the phrase ‘real man’ coming out of a man’s mouth not understanding marlon has a very different intersectional POV. He is BIPOC and the father to a transgender child and has literally deconstructed what it means ‘to be a man’ as he’s raising a trans man. But she wouldn’t know that be she steamrolled him here and then their other costar got to speak on the point he was trying to initially make. So frustrating to watch,” one person said.
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Indeed, Wayans has talked openly about raising and supporting his trans son, Kai, which you can read about in more detail here.
Another user agreed, “This is the issue with White Feminism. She gets triggered and begins to disrespectfully talk over a room full of Black Man and lecture them all about ‘oppression.’ Read the room FFS,” while someone else said, “White women need to understand their feminism exists in a different context around Black people. This is not a woman interrupting a man. This is a WHITE woman talking over a BLACK man. Very different context.”
Meanwhile, some people called Fox out for being so outspoken, given that she previously publicly dated and aligned herself with Kanye “Ye” West, who has long been criticized for making misogynistic and harmful comments.
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And others took issue with the fact that Fox was so quick to interrupt Wayans, but didn’t cut Withers off once.
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